Episode 6: Experiential learning and business simulation applications with Dr. Ricardo Flores

Download: 06-Dr.Flores-Transcript

 

BECCA

Welcome to the Teach Anywhere Podcast, EdTech Stories from Real Educators, where we interview faculty and instructors about how they use educational technology in their courses at UVic. My name is Becca Edwards, and my pronouns are she, her.

 

THIAGO

I’m your co-host, Thiago Hinkel, and my pronouns are he and him. Before we begin, we would like to acknowledge and respect the Lək̓ʷəŋən peoples on whose traditional territory the university stands and the Songhees, Esquimalt, and WSÁNEĆ Peoples whose historical relationships with the land continue to this day.

 

BECCA

With us today is Dr. Ricardo Flores. Dr. Flores is an associate professor at the Gustavson School of Business. His primary research interest is to understand how organizations respond to and proactively shape their institutional environments. Ricardo teaches courses in strategic management, international business, business ethics, leadership, intercultural competence, and diversity, equity, and inclusion. Hello, Ricardo, welcome to the podcast.

 

RICARDO

Hello.

 

THIAGO

Thank you for joining us today. Before we start chatting about your course, we were hoping that you could introduce yourself. Perhaps, you could start by telling us about your journey here at UVic Of course, I’d be happy to do that.

 

RICARDO

My journey is a little bit a long and winding road, I think. So, I came to UVic six years ago, approximately. We came directly from Sydney, Australia, where I was a lecturer in the University of New South Wales. But before that, we went to the US to study. So we did our graduate degrees with my wife there. And, before that, we lived in Argentina and in other countries. So, it’s been a long journey to be here today.

 

THIAGO

So, it sounds like you’ve been to many different places.

 

RICARDO

Yes, yes. I’ve been around, people can say that, but I think that for me, at least, it’s been really a learning journey because in each of these places, you know, some of your assumptions and your understandings get challenged, and you need to grow as part of that experience. You know, it takes a little bit of humility and understanding the new context, the new challenges in particular universities, new unique challenges with the student population, with the length of the term, with the expectations, the typical, you know, pedagogies that people use in the programs where you teach. So, it’s always you need to adapt to each of these new places you work.

 

THIAGO

Thanks for that.

 

BECCA

On your website, it mentions that you’re in the process of publishing a book on groups and teamwork as a teaching method in business education. Can you tell us a little bit about this project?

 

RICARDO

Of course, I’d be happy. So this is a project we started just as the pandemic was hitting. So it took us several years like three years to get this book published. But even putting it together because my co-author and I, she works in the US, I work here in Canada. So coordinating, changing, putting together the chapters, getting, you know, some feedback from the editors was quite a bit of a long journey because everybody was coping with the new challenges of the pandemic. So every person involved in the process was trying to learn how to teach suddenly through Zoom or something else. So it took us quite a bit of a long time to put it together and to now hopefully publish it in the next couple of months. But the motivation behind the book is that my co-author and I, and other people in our field, believe that, although working in teams is a central part of what most business schools do and more generally what universities do, we actually don’t teach how to be a good team member or how to be at least a more effective team member or team leader. And I think that more than anything over the past, you know, few decades people have more or less, you know, pushed the students to dive into the experience but without giving them the support they might need to work effectively with people they’ve never met before in most cases or when they have met those people, they haven’t worked with them before. So it’s quite a bit of a challenge. And, on top of that, in most cases, instructors only focus on the output of what the teams do instead of, you know, helping along the way in the processes of producing whatever output the team is working. So we thought that the practice and the theory of teaching teamwork was a little bit mismatched and we hope to put together a book that tried to bring them together and to address more practical terms, what professors should do in improving the experience of teamwork for the students. But more importantly, to help and support and guide students throughout the process of developing teamwork skills, which is, you know, what we think we are not doing well and the audience is not actually students but teachers, instructors. Because we believe that we are a significant part of the problem in how we design this type of teamwork exercises and activities, but also how we evaluate them, the type of signals we send to the students, whether we support them or not along the way. So we are at the center of many of these issues, and we hope that by publishing this book we can support some of our colleagues that sometimes struggle with this challenge.

 

BECCA

That’s a really, it’s an interesting topic to me particularly because in my master’s degree, my thesis project was actually on a collaborative engineering team. So I did some research in this area and my professor, my supervisor, Dr. Alison Hadwin, is very interested in collaborative learning and collaborative processes. So it’s really interesting to hear about the work that you’re doing. OK, so to jump kind of more into the interview. So today I think you wanted to tell us a little bit about a particular course. I don’t know the name of that course. What was it again?

 

RICARDO

The name of the course is Strategic Management. The code is COM 400; it is one of the last courses the Bachelor of Commerce students take before graduating. So it’s a capstone type of course, where not only we introduce new concepts, but the most important part is making sure that they practice some of the learnings they’ve had on all these other classes and, you know, whenever we find some gaps, we try to fill them up and just to make sure that they are ready for the real world once they graduate.

 

BECCA

So how many… tell us a little bit more about the course. You’ve told us kind of the topic and kind of a little bit about the students in the course, but how big is the course? And is this the first time you’ve taught this course? Do you teach it regularly?

 

RICARDO

Sure. So we teach this course like we do in the whole bachelor of commerce, in sections. So we have more or less 300 students. as an entire cohort if you want every year. And we usually teach that in sections of between 50 and 60 students. So an instructor is in charge of a section, and this just as an example, now during the summer I’m teaching two sections of that, and there are other instructors teaching the other sections. So, in general, we have sections of between 50 and 60 students, and we teach that class for 13 weeks during the term. And since it’s such an important class in the program, we teach that every semester. So summer, fall, and winter; there is always someone teaching that class in our program.

 

BECCA

And when you teach this course, which sounds like you do quite often, what kind of instructional strategies do you like to focus on? Like, what’s your kind of instructional approach to the course?

 

RICARDO

Well, I, not only in this course but in most of the courses I teach, I try to take a student-centered approach and, you know, I truly believe that the students are the main protagonist of all these processes. My role there is to support, guide, facilitate that, you know, learning acquisition and skill development that we hope happens during those 13 weeks. But also I try to combine that with other pedagogies in particular and, you know, big proponent and supporter and advocate of experiential learning and as such, you know, a big part of the design of the course and eventually of the implementation is for the students to have, you know, first-hand experience on doing things that they might have to do later on once they are working in a real company or in a real organization. So a big part of my class in this case and, you know, as part of our, you know, the main topic of our conversation is I have in every section I teach of this course, we run a simulation. So we use a software platform that is based on the US, but we use it here where the students basically are in charge, a team of students is in charge of running a company, a fictitious company of course in this simulated world for 10 of the 13 weeks that they participate in the course. And the basic idea is they are the first few 3, 4 weeks we try to on board them on the objective of the game, how to play the game, the technical aspects of the game. And then as we build their competencies on playing the game and how to operate within that environment, I complement that with the classes and the topics we cover. So what we end up doing in the simulation every week is related usually with the topics we cover before in class, more theoretical topics or more, you know, generic knowledge, the application of that knowledge, the application of those concepts comes every week in the simulation.

 

THIAGO

So it sounds that experiential learning is very important to you as a pedagogy. And I think this aligns with the book that you were mentioning in the beginning to, right, make sure that when students move out of university and go to the real world, they know how to go about. Not only they would have like the content knowledge, but also know how to operate and do things, right?

 

RICARDO

Yeah. I know that that’s probably not the, it’s not always the case in other, you know, programs at the university because I’m assuming, for instance that in a, when you take a philosophy degree, it’s much more important how you develop your skills in understanding, you know, logical arguments, how to build arguments, how to debate. But in our case, it’s a program that is really practical and professional in nature. So preparing them to do things and to do it, you know, competently when they, when they leave our classrooms is a central part of what we do. So it’s not only in my class that we do this, but it’s a little bit of a, you know, pedagogy throughout the program. But, in my classes, I have to make sure that before they leave, they fill out some gaps and that they develop a, you know, big picture of what it means to run a company. How, you know, all these different decision in different parts of the company, the marketing part, the research and development part, the operation part, the finance part, all of these that they study throughout their program for four years before they arrive to my class, how we connect all of them at the same time, which is the challenge in the real world because the way we teach is we separate the world in different silos. But, in reality, that’s not what it is. You have a company to run and problems that are not even defined; you have to find what the problems are. So a big part of my, the objective, the learning objective of my class is to make sure that they understand the interconnectedness between the different decisions and different departments and how to go about figuring out whether there are problems or not and what to do with that.

 

THIAGO

So you mentioned a simulation software, right? And I’m thinking now probably this simulation software helps you do that, what you just described now, maybe a central location where, you know, people can have information about all departments in a company and get an understanding on how they function individually but then as a whole, I was hoping you could tell us a bit more about that software, maybe you can tell us its name and how you came across it. And maybe a final question, how did you decide to use that as a strategy?

 

RICARDO

Sure. So the platform we use is called Capsim. They have a variety of simulations, not only one. They, so multiple business schools around the world use this platform; they do even corporate training with the same tool. So it’s a tool that is, you know, well recognized, you know, well known and have a lot of praise in terms of their effectiveness in helping people develop certain skills. So I was aware of the tool and the platform for some years since I was in Sydney in UNSW, but I haven’t used it before because other, you know, administrative problems in UNSW on how to hire and how to manage some of the platform, you know, administratively speaking. But I’ve had colleagues that have used that platform before and all their comments and feedback was that it was really effective and the students really enjoy the experience of learning and going through the different rounds you go when you run this program. So when I came here and I was allocated to teach this class, I thought that it was the ideal type of class to do this because in Sydney, I was teaching more international business type of classes and not so much necessarily strategy, which is, you know, the big part of the company, the people in charge of the long term planning and long term decisions for companies. So it seems like since I was given this class to teach, the matching between the learning goals of the class and what the platform could do were ideal. So that’s why I chose to start using the platform. As you were saying, choosing the platform is difficult always because no matter the platform that you want to use, there are supporters, people that advocate for that and give you the good stories. There are always people that give you the the other side. So you never know until you actually use how, you know, how it goes for you for the particular context where you are teaching, and we know that even in the same university, different cohorts can bring different challenges. So that’s always something that I try to keep in mind. But since, you know, there was so much praise for the tool, I decided to invest the time and, you know, prepare myself first to see all the intricacies of how to use it and be, you know, better prepared to support the students as they go through the experience. Because if I didn’t know well the tool I would be ill-prepared to help them, advise, and support them. So it took a little bit of time for me to invest and learn about the platform itself.

 

BECCA

So, two follow-up questions: How long have you been using this tool? Like how many semesters have you, have you been able to use it?

 

RICARDO

Well, I’ve been teaching this class for four years now, and I usually teach these probably twice a year. So I would say that’s probably my eighth or ninth time using it. And, you know, every semester I tweak the use and the setup, the incentive system for the students. I’m always, you know, trying to adapt to the feedback I get from the students at the end of the year. And also I am lucky enough that I tend to create a good relationship with some of the students. So when later on they graduate, they start working and I, you know, somehow get in contact with them, they also give me feedback after working a little bit in the real world. And, based on that, I also try to adapt what we do in class. So I would say that I have a good amount of experience, but I’m sure that there are other people out there that they’ve been using this for longer than I have.

 

BECCA

And, so you said it was called Capsim, and it seems to be kind of mostly for business students. Do you think it would be applicable outside kind of the Faculty of Business or Business School in other departments or faculties?

 

RICARDO

I’m sure that you could because they have multiple simulations. And in fact, you know, since this is their core business, they keep adapting to the changes in the environment. And from this, you know, the one that I use in particular is called Capstone 2.0, which is, you know, again, put you in charge of a company and make decisions. But over time, they’ve been developing microsimulations, where you are put it in charge of being, you know, the marketing manager in a company or an organization. And the way it works is they send you emails saying, Oh, this is a problem and you have to think and try to… So the response and the type of things that you recommend or the things that you suggest to do, you know, are evaluated and feed back to you on what happens next after you suggest a particular action. So I’m sure that among those microsimulations, there are others that can be applicable in engineering, in geography, in other areas. But most of the… as far as I know at least, most of the people using them tend to be in business schools.

 

BECCA

So I’m I’m going to ask you, you kind of have told us the steps that you took to kind of prepare to use the tool. Was there anything that got in your way? Did any kind of challenges come up?

 

RICARDO

Well, yeah, there are multiple challenges. Personally, because it takes some time for you to prepare yourself to do this and to get… because all of these platforms are complex in many ways. So you need to invest time and, as you guys know well and probably some of the listeners know well, time is one of the things that we don’t have as faculty members because we are doing, you know, our own research, the teaching, some contributions to the community, or service to the university. So finding the time to prepare yourself to do this is one of the first challenges of course. In particular in this case, another challenge that was always present in my mind are equity challenges with the students. Because all these companies that offer simulations, the fee you need to pay is significant. So finding the right company that can offer this at the price that is accessible for most of our students is always a challenge. And in particular, in this case, since most of the companies that do this are either European or American, you know, the exchange rate risk is another issue because no matter what they will charge you in their local currency and then if something happened to our Canadian dollar vis- a-vis the euro or the American dollar, then would be an extra load for our students. So finding the right or developing over time the right relationship with the company and negotiating with them price and packages so the students can get access and, you know, it’s fair for all of them. What happens if a student cannot pay? How can we deal with that? Finding either, you know, someone within the business school who can support the student or, you know, find other ways for them to do it is always, you know, something challenging and important I think, particularly in these times with the high inflation rates and everything else. So keeping equity in mind is something important. And over time, you know, as I told you, I’ve been using it for four years or so, also like in many other fields, you know, the knowledge and the priorities on how to run a business keep changing. So when I was going to school, you know, 20 years ago, there was only one way of running a business; it was all about maximizing shareholder value. But now we are in a… we’ve reached a point where that cannot be the only goal and we need to expand the way we think about how to run a company. And in particular thinking about the communities that are impacted, what are we contributing with the thriving of that community and all the stakeholders involved. So the people that work for you, your suppliers, your employees, you know, all the peoples that are somehow impacted by the actions of the company. So one of the big challenges I found is that we in Gustavson have been teaching about sustainability and prioritizing other goals, not only the financial aspect for quite some time, but unfortunately the simulation presented a challenge because they were only focusing on the financial aspect, which is, you know, fair enough for them. That’s the model that they’ve been using and quite successfully, and for some business school that’s good enough, but not for us. So for the last four years, I’ve been, you know, pushing, advocating, talking with other professors around the world to try to influence them to change how the simulation works internally, and, therefore, what type of signals we teach the students on what is important when running a company. It’s been a long fight, but now there is some hope, some light at the end of the tunnel because apparently starting next year, we finally will have a way to fit or align what we teach them in class in terms of concepts and the importance of paying attention to things beyond financial issues with how the simulation itself is run and is evaluated from the point of view of the students. So now they’ll get points for not only the financial aspect but also for the impact in people and community and and the environment. So now, but it’s been a process, you know, challenging and because the evolution of the knowledge and the evolution of how to run a company, we are in the middle of it, so it’s always challenging to keep adapting and giving the students something that is relevant. But also we are leading, if you think about it, role-modeling for them, what we want a good, you know, manager, owner, leader in a company to be in the years to come.

 

BECCA

So it seems from what you’ve said that the technology is not completely neutral; it has that perspective and it doesn’t necessarily align with that perspective that you’re teaching in the classroom. So you need to find ways to kind of bring those two things more into alignment.

 

RICARDO

Of course. Of course. And we try to do it with additional cases, with additional exercises. But since, you know, we discuss so much the importance and why companies need to contribute with their communities and their ecosystems in different ways, but then the simulation tells the students something different. It was always their cognitive dissonance, which, you know, instead of hiding from them, what we try was to openly discuss it and say, look, yes, this is not good and this is not what it should be, but we are trying to change it, and this is probably something that you will experience as the more junior person entering a company that there are some people within the company that want to think and want to run the company in one way, others that want to run it in the more traditional way. And that type of dynamic is something that you might expect. So we try to use it as a tool of being prepared to discuss some of these issues and confront with the dichotomy of as we are going through this transition in capitalism more generally, but in particular in how to run companies and what are the appropriate goals to companies to pursue.

 

SPEAKER

 

 

THIAGO

Yeah. So you mentioned a bit your students and how concerned you are that this is equitable to them to have access. Just continuing on the topic of students, I had two questions for you. The first one is, how do your students usually react when they learn that they will be using, you know, a game or a simulation game in class? Maybe I can argue that it’s not like every class that they get to do that or maybe, you know, although gamification is pedagogical theory, maybe it’s not familiar to everyone. So first part of the question, how do your students usually react when they learn they’re going to use the game in the class? And in practical terms, how do they get to use it? Do they have like time during the class to do it? Is it homework?

 

RICARDO

Of course. So, let me address first how they react. So I think that we are lucky enough that this is not the only class that uses simulation; it’s not the same simulation but other classes in previous years have used similar tools. So of course, you know, that could be a blessing or not. Because depending on the type of experiences they’ve had with those tools previously, they might see the use of the tool as something negative. So I need to try to sell them the tool early on in the class and why we are using, and how we’re gonna use it, and which way they’re gonna learn. But also, you know, we need to find, and I think that is this is applicable for any class that we discuss, is to create and design the right type of incentives. Incentives for them to invest time in doing this type of exercises,in learning, trying to learn from the, you know, the activities, and give them, you know, some type of grade for their work. But also not make it so big part of the class that they are so afraid of losing some points, that they don’t want to make mistakes or to risk or to try to learn some of the concepts. So that’s an important part that early on, you know, I try to tell them how I designed this, how many points we are gonna invest on this, and which way they’re gonna get the points. So that’s a big part of selling the exercise and the activity to them. And as I told you at the beginning, I keep tweaking with that because depending on the different cohorts, you know, the expectations and the preferences on that keep changing. So I try to be as flexible as I can and, depending on how I see, you know, the reaction early on, I try to adapt and be flexible. So that was the first part. The second part? Sorry, would you mind reminding me?

 

THIAGO

Oh, for sure. Yeah. How do students usually use the simulation? Is it during class? Is it homework?

 

RICARDO

So we do a mix of it. So I give them homework and the platform itself has a really nice module where they start from how to open the software to how to move, you know, any of the levers that you can, how to input some data, how to analyze the reports that the software creates. There are videos that show them how it works and what they are supposed to do. And I, what we do is they do some part of that and I give them points for completing some of the on-boarding if you want of the software. But I also, during class, I try to cover some of the basics and ask them to practice doing some of the things. So little by little, as we start using the software, we cover different aspects of how to use it, and we do that with them playing around by themselves, but then reinforcing some of the key points in class. But, importantly, what we do is I give them basically three weeks where we do, they do something in their teams as homework, and we do it again in class and we, I call that practice rounds. So basically we have two practice rounds for them to play around to start working well or not that well with their teams and make decisions, but with no impact in their final grade. So for two weeks or so they play with this, they see the results. They come to me and ask me questions, why did this happen? We tried this but it turned out completely different than we thought, and we talk and we try to learn. And then after they feel much more confident on using the software and what the key lessons to be learned, then we wipe all the information, so zero from the beginning, and we start them again. But we do this probably week six or seven of the semester. So we’ve been talking and working on this for six or seven weeks before they actually have to do something that has impact in their grades. And then every week more or less, they have for each year that happens in the simulation is a week in real life for us. So they do, they make some of this decision offline, you know, together with their teammates. But then every week we review together in class, not only the results for everyone because everybody competes with everyone in the classroom. But also I try to, and thinking again about equity, what I do is to order the rankings of the teams and their industries from first to last. And then I spend in-class time, first with the last team and then going up all the way to the first one if I get there depending on the time, trying to give them more personal team really, team support to each of them on the things that they are not grasping yet or where they are making a mistake. I try to give them some extra support.

 

BECCA

So I guess two more questions kind of about this, the use of this tool from my end. So what is one thing that you didn’t expect that’s happened kind of over the last eight times that you’ve used this?

 

RICARDO

Something I didn’t expect? Many things I didn’t expect. So it seems like I was quite naive starting because there are challenges, you know, every week. And in every cohort, the challenges are a little bit different. Remember I used this throughout the pandemic too. So working, you know, through Zoom and supporting the team through zoom was quite challenging. But I think that the things that are always surprising to me is, probably because of my age more than anything, is, you know, how the students fail to work together effectively. You know, by week seven and after working on this task for several weeks, my expectation is that, you know, more or less how the team works, the dynamics of the teams are running quite well. It turns out that it takes much more time than I would expect. So I need to adapt to that and try to support particularly the teams that are struggling a little bit. So my expectations were that we could spend much more time on the insights from strategy, from the class point of view. And it turned out that I spend much more time trying to facilitate, support, and coach them on how to work effectively in teams rather than on some of the key concepts that we are supposed to do. So I need to spend a little bit more time on teamwork support than in the topics of the week if you want, which, you know, matches well with another reason why I ended up working and creating that book on teams and groups because I thought that this is something that we need to work on. But also, you know, every semester, there are some new challenges on groups or individuals who have, you know, a harder time grasping some particular concepts, you know, how late they end up making their decisions and whether the system blocked them because the deadline has passed and how to fix that. So there are always surprises along the way because each cohort ends up being a little bit different than the previous one.

 

BECCA

So to kind of come off of that, what you just said there, what is the most important lesson that you’ve learned through this?

 

RICARDO

I think that probably is that you never, you know, your learning never ends, that you need to keep learning how can you support people through the process, how to teach certain concepts from using different analogies, different examples. You know, in the last few years, I started to add instead of only readings of the book, we have a book in the class, but I’ve started adding YouTube videos and examples from interviews with CEOs or, you know, particular concepts that I found, really good videos that explain them in ways that are, you know, that the students can relate more with. So more than anything, I think that what I’ve learned is that you need to keep… you cannot stay still, that you need to keep changing and adapting to address, you know, an ever-changing uh set of different needs. And it’s amazingly, I think that we assume in general that our students are more or less the same, but in fact, they are… they could be different from each other and each of them have unique needs. So how can I, although trying to achieve the same goal, how can I get there differently with different students, depending on what they need. I think that’s what I learned the most with this tool.

 

THIAGO

Yeah, that sounds great. And I’m wondering, people listening to this, if they’re curious about this platform and might be willing to start using it. So, if that is the case, what is something you would tell someone who would want to try this strategy out?

 

RICARDO

So I think that the key, for me at least, is with this tool and with any other tool is how will the tool help you to achieve your learning goals. So the thing, I’m not a big fan of using new technology because other people are using it. It has to make sense for you, for the context you are facing, and for the goals that you have for that particular class. So more broadly speaking, I think that the learning goals come first and then, you know, the tools that you might want to use uh to try to achieve them. Of course, that’s a bit of a loop back to your learning goals because sometimes no matter the tools that we use, you might not get there. So maybe there is something else going on, and you need to reflect on that too. But, you know, I think that these tools are powerful tools and they are useful. So trying new things is something that I’m a big believer in. So if you find a new tool, even one that not many people use, I would say try it. And let’s see from that first try, you know, how it goes and then try to learn from that first experience and tweak it again, and keep changing it and adapting it depending on the challenges that you face. But unless you try it, you know, what other people tell you about their experiences are likely to be the experience that you will have because you are different than the other instructor, and your students are likely to be different than the students of this other instructor. But the other thing that I would highly recommend is look for help. I’ve never been the first trying something. So, you know, ask, talk. And, at least in my experience, people, other instructor here in UVic but also in other universities, are so generous. Everybody is happy to tell you about how it went for them when using a particular tool, why they are using it, in which way. People like to talk about those things and share, at least in my experience. And there are other people like you guys and other people in LTSI that have a lot of experience with these tools, other tools, that can also help you, support you, guide you. So you are not alone; you are always having other people who can help you. So ask for help and try. That’s my lesson.

 

THIAGO

Nice. Thank you.

 

BECCA

All right. Thank you so much for sharing the story of this course with us. Before we say goodbye, I’d like to ask you one final question. And that question is, what is one question you wished that I’d asked you? And how would you have answered? So this is really your opportunity to kind of tell us something that you haven’t been able to yet.

 

RICARDO

You know, I think that you have asked me about most of the things I wanted to share regarding this class. But I think that more and more what I find challenging, at least in business, it could be that it is completely different in other careers in other degrees, is that it seems to me, and again perhaps it’s my own failings and my own biases, that, you know, students find it more and more challenging to relate to the topics and things that we cover in class. And believe me, I tell you, we try to be as relevant as we can and we believe that we are relevant because we talk about real-world businesses and examples and cases. But in the last few years, I feel that at least some of our students when we tell them, look, pay attention to this because this is so important once you go to work. It seems to me nobody have told me, you know, explicitly this. But it seems to me that they look at us and say, well, I don’t even know what I want to do after I graduate. So you telling me that this is relevant for work is not that exciting or important to me. You might find it relevant and important, but in my life it doesn’t seem like it. So I think that we need to, all of us in UVic and in other universities, I think that we need to, you know, get to know our students a little bit more and, instead of telling them things, listening to them, finding ways of listening to them and what they are worried about. And, you know, again, since it’s all about adaptation, try to adapt to what they need or to reach out to understand the world from their point of view, from their shoes. And by doing so, you know, trying to help them more, to support them, to guide them, to coach them in a way that we are not doing today. So what I hope that other people ask and think about is how can we do a better job or help them or be more impactful in their lives. Because I know that many of them are making a huge effort to come to university, to pay all this money, sometimes money that the family don’t have or they don’t have or they get into huge debt. But as they are going through, sometimes they are lost; they don’t know what to do next. And, you know, since we assume that they’re gonna work and do this, we might frame what we do in a way that doesn’t connect with them. It makes perfect sense for us, but it might not connect with them. So, listening more and developing deeper relationship with our students is I think something that us, as people interested in education, you and I, that we need to do more.

 

THIAGO

Wonderful. Thanks again for joining us today, Ricardo. This has been a great conversation and we wish you all our best.

 

RICARDO

Thank you.

 

BECCA

All right. That brings our episode to a close. Make sure to visit our website at uvic.ca/teachanywhere, where you can learn more about teaching and learning at UVic and listen to other podcast episodes. We will talk to you again soon.

Hosts: Rebecca Edwards & Thiago Hinkel

Guest: Dr. Ricardo Flores

Technical Production: Thiago Hinkel

Transcript Preparation: Thiago Hinkel

Theme music: “freesound1.wav” by freezound5 (https://freesound.org/people/freezound5/sounds/588258/). Available for use under the CC0 1.0 Public Domain Dedication at freesound.org.